Miljø- og Fødevareudvalget 2017-18
MOF Alm.del Bilag 35
Offentligt
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Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
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Importance:
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
12. september 2017 14:15
'Anders Chr. Erichsen'; Karen Timmermann
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
FW: Question to researchers
High
Kære Anders og Karen
Jeg videresender hermed et enkelt spørgsmål fra Peter Herman i panelet – se nedenfor.
Vil I være så behjælpelig med at svare på dette?
På forhånd tak,
VH
Eske Benn Thomsen
+45 3085 8070 | [email protected]
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From:
Peter Herman [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:
12. september 2017 11:53
To:
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
Subject:
Question to researchers
I have observed, in the graphs presented in Appendix B of the scientific documentation report, that there is a correlation between
the average Chl-a values and the average Kd values (averages over time), when analysed
cross-system.
To examine this, I estimated
the averages by eye, and this is a rather… imprecise methodology. The graph is included in this mail.
Would it be possible to have the real averages of Chl-a and Kd for these systems? It would be embarrassing if it turned out the
relation is not that strong at all but due to misestimation!
Thanks,
Peter Herman
1
 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
1803669_0002.png
Peter Herman
T +31(0)88335 7862
E
[email protected]
www.deltares.com
Postbus 177
2600 MH Delft
Please consider the environment before printing this email
2
 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
1803669_0003.png
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
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Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
13. september 2017 16:11
'Alice Newton'; 'Bo Gustafsson'; '[email protected]'; 'Peter
Herman'; 'Malve Olli'
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
FW: Question to researchers
Chl_vs_kd_v20170913.xlsx
Enclosed you find the answer to Peter’s question that was forwarded to the researchers.
BR Eske
Eske Benn Thomsen
+45 3085 8070 | [email protected]
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From:
Karen Timmermann [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:
13. september 2017 16:07
To:
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group <[email protected]>; Anders Chr. Erichsen
<[email protected]>
Cc:
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group <[email protected]>
Subject:
RE: Question to researchers
Kære Eske,
Her er de efterspurgte data – håber du kan videreformidle.
Pft, Karen
Dear Peter/Panel,
The data (calculated average from 1991 to 2012) of Chl a and Kd show essentially the same interesting pattern
as observed by Peter Herman. Although the Kd values are higher than can be explained by the direct bio optical
effects of chl a alone (chl a specific absorption coefficients are around 0.015 m2 mg-1 Chl a, Pedersen et al.,
2014, Timmermann et al., 2010, Stæhr and Markager 2004 ), the rather convincing correlation indicates that
there is a common factor governing both parameters. This could be phytoplankton primary production that
over time cause an accumulation of organic matter both as POM and DOM which, together with Chl a adds to
the light attenuation.
Also, the curve seems to be slightly non-linear as expected based on optical theory. Very beautiful!
1
 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
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Best regards Stiig, Jesper and Karen
Karen Timmermann, Senior Scientist
Section for Applied Marine Ecology and Modelling
Departement of Bioscience
Aarhus University
4000 Roskilde, Denmark
Tel direct +45 8715 8467
From:
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:
12. september 2017 14:15
To:
Anders Chr. Erichsen; Karen Timmermann
Cc:
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
Subject:
FW: Question to researchers
Importance:
High
Kære Anders og Karen
Jeg videresender hermed et enkelt spørgsmål fra Peter Herman i panelet – se nedenfor.
Vil I være så behjælpelig med at svare på dette?
På forhånd tak,
VH
Eske Benn Thomsen
+45 3085 8070 | [email protected]
IMPLEMENT
C O N S U L T IN G G R O U P
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 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
1803669_0005.png
From:
Peter Herman [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:
12. september 2017 11:53
To:
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
Subject:
Question to researchers
I have observed, in the graphs presented in Appendix B of the scientific documentation report, that there is a correlation between
the average Chl-a values and the average Kd values (averages over time), when analysed
cross-system.
To examine this, I estimated
the averages by eye, and this is a rather… imprecise methodology. The graph is included in this mail.
Would it be possible to have the real averages of Chl-a and Kd for these systems? It would be embarrassing if it turned out the
relation is not that strong at all but due to misestimation!
Thanks,
Peter Herman
Peter Herman
T +31(0)88335 7862
E
[email protected]
www.deltares.com
Postbus 177
2600 MH Delft
Please consider the environment before printing this email
3
 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
1803669_0006.png
AU og DHI's svar på Panelets spørgsmål
Chl,
average
1991- Kd, average
2012 1991-2012
[µg/l] [m-1]
3,7
0,35
8,0
0,54
7,3
0,65
4,5
0,42
12,5
0,72
5,8
0,45
16,0
1,08
8,1
0,61
5,5
0,56
17,8
0,99
5,9
0,56
4,5
0,52
13,9
0,80
15,9
0,95
3,4
0,41
5,2
0,60
5,2
0,66
7,3
1,9
0,26
4,1
0,28
2,3
0,24
10,4
1,36
2,5
0,23
Åbenrå
Flensborg
Horsens inder
Horsens yder
Kolding
Vejle
Randers inder
Randers yder
Kås
Lovns
Løgstør
Nissum
Riisgaarde
Skive
Isefjord
Roskilde
Odense ydre
Odense indre
Århus bugt
Lillebælt
Storebælt
Ringkøbing
Storebælt
15
KFF2
5790
6489
3350
5503
230902
230905
3705-1
3728-1
3708-1
3702-1
3726-1
3727-1
10003
60
6900017
6910008
170006
6100051
6700009
1
6700053
1,60
1,40
1,20
Average Kd
1,00
0,80
0,60
0,40
0,20
0,00
0,0
5,0
10,0
Average Chl a
15,0
20,0
R² = 0,6897
 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
1803669_0007.png
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
From:
Sent:
To:
Cc:
Subject:
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
14.
september 2017 10:41
'Karen Timmermann'; Anders Chr. Erichsen
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
Yderlige spørgsmål fra Panelet
Kære Karen og Anders
Vi har fået følgende spørgsmål, som Panelet ønsker besvaret. Har I mulighed for det?
1) Has Kd been intercalibrated? "the importance of these indicators in the official ecological classification where only
intercalibrated indicators are used"
2) Do you have one or a few typical time series for monitoring of Kd (preferably with high resolution) that you can
send us?
Venlig hilsen
Eske Benn Thomsen
+45 3085 8070 | [email protected]
IMPLEMENT
C O N S U L T IN G G R O U P
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 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
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Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
From:
Sent:
To:
Cc:
Subject:
Attachments:
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group
14. september 2017 16:40
'Alice Newton'; 'Peter Herman'; 'Bo Gustafsson'; 'gerald.schernewski@io-
warnemuende.de'; 'Malve Olli'
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
FW: Yderlige spørgsmål fra Panelet
kd_TimeSeries_st6900017.xlsx; Kd_TimeSeries_st6489.xlsx
The latest answers to your questions to the scientists
Eske Benn Thomsen
+45 3085 8070 | [email protected]
IMPLEMENT
C O N S U L T IN G G R O U P
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From:
Karen Timmermann [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:
14. september 2017 16:35
To:
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group <[email protected]>; Anders Chr. Erichsen
<[email protected]>
Cc:
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group <[email protected]>
Subject:
RE: Yderlige spørgsmål fra Panelet
Kære Eske,
Så lykkedes det at få data ud af databasen
Hilsen Karen
Vores svar er markeret med gult nedenfor.
From:
Eske Benn Thomsen - Implement Consulting Group [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:
14. september 2017 10:41
To:
Karen Timmermann; Anders Chr. Erichsen
Cc:
Martin Enevoldsen - Implement Consulting Group
Subject:
Yderlige spørgsmål fra Panelet
Kære Karen og Anders
Vi har fået følgende spørgsmål, som Panelet ønsker besvaret. Har I mulighed for det?
1. Has Kd been intercalibrated? "the importance of these indicators in the official ecological classification where only
intercalibrated indicators are used"
Answer: The Kd indicator has not been intercalibrated according to the WFD. As described in the report, the Kd indicator
is used as a proxy for the indicator “eelgrass depth limit”, which has been intercalibrated. Only intercalibrated indicators
(i.e. eelgrass depth limit, summer chl concentration and the DKI) are used in the official assessment of ecological status
of Danish WFD water bodies. Kd (or light availability) is very important for predicting potential eelgrass depth limit, but
other factors may prevent or delay eelgrass recovery and hence an observable eelgrass depth limit may be lower than
predicted by light availability.
1
 MOF, Alm.del - 2017-18 - Bilag 35: Rapporten fra det internationale ekspertpanel om evaluering af de danske marine modeller
1803669_0009.png
2. Do you have one or a few typical time series for monitoring of Kd (preferably with high resolution) that you can
send us?
Answer: Attached is two time series of Kd monitoring data from the Danish monitoring program (NOVANA). High
frequency Kd data is often scattered due to e.g. resuspension event whereas the Kd level and long term trends will reflect
the amount of substances that either absorb or scatter light - mainly organic matter (POM and DOM).
Venlig hilsen
Eske Benn Thomsen
+45 3085 8070 | [email protected]
IMPLEMENT
C O N S U L T IN G G R O U P
implementconsultinggroup.com | Legal notice
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