Defence and Security
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Original: English
NATO Parliamentary Assembly
SUMMARY
of the meeting of the Defence and Security Committee
Hall des Ternes, Palais des Congrès, Paris, France
Sunday 28 May 2006
International Secretariat                                                                                                         June 2006
ATTENDANCE LIST
Chairman                                                          Joel Hefley (United States)
                                                                          Â
Vice-Chairman                                                 Joseph A. Day (Canada)
                                                                          Â
General Rapporteur                                       Julio Miranda-Calha (Portugal)
Chairman, Sub-Committee on
Transatlantic Defence and Security
Co-operation                                                   Sven Mikser (Estonia)
Rapporteur, Sub-Committee on
Transatlantic Defence and Security
Co-operation                                                   John Shimkus (United States)
Chairman, Sub-Committee on Future
Security and Defence Capabilities               Vahit Erdem (Turkey)
Rapporteur, Sub-Committee on Future
Security and Defence Capabilities               Frank Cook (United Kingdom)
President of the NATO PAÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Pierre Lellouche (France)
Secretary General                                          Simon Lunn
Member Delegations
Belgium                                                             Daniel Bacquelaine
                                                                           Mia De Schamphelaere
                                                                           Yvon Harmegnies
                                                                           Théo Kelchtermans
                                                                           Philippe Mahoux
Bulgaria                                                             Nikolai Kamov
                                                                           Yani Yanev
Canada                                                              Claude Bachand
                                                                           Marcel Proulx
Czech Republic                                                 Antonin Seda
Denmark                                                            Morten Helveg Petersen
France                                                                Paulette Brisepierre
                                                                           Jean-Pierre Demerliat
Germany                                                            Rainer Arnold
                                                                           Ernst-Reinhard Beck
                                                                           Helga Daub
                                                                           Ursula Mogg
                                                                           Winfried Nachtwei
Hans Raidel
Kurt J. Rossmanith
Anita Schäfer
Bernd Siebert
Jörn Thiessen
Gottfried Timm
Greece                                                               Sofia Kalantzakou
                                                                           Andreas Loverdos
                                                                           Vassilios Maghinas
Iceland                                                               Össur Skarphédinsson
                                                                           Magnus Stefánsson
Italy                                                                    Giovanni Lorenzo Forcieri
Mario Palombo
Latvia                                                                 Juris Dalbins
Lithuania                                                            Rasa Jukneviciene
Netherlands                                                       Willem Hoekzema
                                                                           Tiny Kox
                                                                           Hendrik Jan Ormel
Norway                                                              Per Ove Width
Poland                                                               Zbyszek Zaborowski
Portugal                                                             Maria Carrilho
                                                                           Manuel Filipe Correia de Jesus
                                                                           Jorge Neto
Romania                                                            Eduard Raul Hellvig
                                                                           Ioan Mircea Pascu
                                                                           Attila Verestóy
Slovakia                                                             Jan Kovarcik
Slovenia                                                             Anton Anderlic
Spain                                                                 Jesus Cuadrado
                                                                           Maria Rosario Juaneda
Jordi Marsal
Alejandro Muñoz-Alonso
José C. Perez Lapazaran
Roberto Soravilla
Turkey                                                                Muharrem Karsli
Mehmet Nessar
United Kingdom                                                 Hugh Bayley
                                                                           Sir Menzies Campbell
                                                                           Sir John Stanley
United States                                                     Dan Burton
                                                                           Dennis Moore
                                                                           Mike Ross
                                                                           Jeff Sessions
                                                                           John Tanner
                                                                           Ellen Tauscher
                                                                           Tom Udall
Armenia                                                              Artur Petrosyan
                                                                           Mher Shageldyan
Azerbaijan                                                          Ziyafat Asgarov
                                                                           Gudrat Hasanguliyev
                                                                           Siyavush Novruzov
                                                                           Tahir Suleymanov
Croatia                                                               Krešimir Cosić
                                                                           Marin Jurjevic
                                                                           Velimir Plesa
Finland                                                               Ilkka Kanerva
Georgia                                                              Nicholas Rurua
                                                                           Irakli Kavtaradze
Russian Federation                                           Valery Bogomolov
                                                                           Rafael Gimalov
                                                                           Victor A. Ozerov
                                                                           Vladimir Vassiliev
                                                                           Vladimir Zhirinovskiy
Sweden                                                             Peter Jonsson
Ukraine                                                              Andriy Shkil
Mediterranean Associate Delegations
Algeria                                                                Mohamed Bouha
                                                                           Messaoud Chihoub
                                                                           Abdelkrim Harchaoui
                                                                           Ahmed Issaad
                                                                           Abdelhamid Latreche
                                                                           Mohamed Mebarki
Israel                                                                  Danny Yatom
Jordan                                                                Hakem Al-Kadi
                                                                           Adel Shureideh
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European Parliament                                      Angelika Beer
                                                                           Paulo Casaca
                                                                           Ana Maria Gomes
                                                                          Â
Speakers                                                        Dennis Sammut, Executive Director, The London Information Network on Conflicts and State-building (Links)
                                                                         John Kriendler, Professor, George C. Marshall European Center for Security Studies
                                                                         General Henri Bentégeat, Chief of Staff of the French Armed Forces
International Secretariat                                Zachary Selden, director
                                                                 Valérie Geffroy, co-ordinator
                                                                 Patrick Stephenson, research assistant
                                                                 Devon L. Mans, research assistant
                                                                 Csaba Kalmar, research assistant
1.      Dennis Sammut, Executive Director of the London Information Network on Conflicts and State-building, spoke about Choices and Options for the countries of the South Caucasus. Mr Sammut focused on the idea that closer relations with NATO and a strong relationship with Russia is not a zero sum game for the countries of the region.
2.      Vahit Erdem (TR) reaffirmed Turkey’s commitment to building a stronger link between NATO and the South Caucasus. Sofia Kalantzakou (GR) asked how NATO should react to the strong nationalistic rhetoric often employed in the region. Mr Sammut replied that recent statements have been less inflammatory, but that the international community should be clear that military solutions to the current problems are not acceptable.
3.      Vladimir Zhirinovskiy (RU) underscored the economic relationship between Russia and Georgia and that billions of dollars flow from Russia to Georgia each year. Mr Sammut replied that most of that capital flow came from Georgians living in Russia.Â
4.      Tiny Kox (NL) questioned the utility of involving a military alliance such as NATO in the region. Mr Sammut replied that NATO has a role to play because the countries must first feel secure before they can resolve their differences. Mher Shageldyan (AM) asked about the consequences to bring some but not all of the countries in the region into NATO. Mr Sammut agreed that this was a point of concern and that we should avoid creating still more divisions in the region. He added that we must avoid solutions based on political expediency and focus on long‑term solutions that give all sides a sense of security.Â
5.      Julio Miranda Calha (PT) presented the Draft General report, Lessons Learned from NATO’s Current Operations. The report focused on Afghanistan as that is the main NATO operation, but also included a look at NATO’s operations in Pakistan, Sudan and Iraq. Mr Miranda Calha concluded that despite the progress in Afghanistan, a tremendous amout still remains to be accomplished. The main lessons we can draw from NATO’s current operations relate to the need for greater interoperability, flexibility and coordination with other international actors.
6.      Sven Mikser (EE) discussed his recent trip with fellow NATO Parliamentarians to Afghanistan and noted the ongoing progress as well as continuing problems. Tiny Kox expressed concern about the operation and that NATO troops were being dragged into a situation that was detrimental to the interests of all involved. Hugh Bailey (UK) disagreed with the characterization of the African Union force in paragraph 61. He also believed that coordination between the EU and NATO is better than the report implies.
7.      Jesus Cuadrado (ES) spoke of the Spanish presence in Afghanistan and the importance of reconstruction as well as security operations. John Skimkus (US) was pleased to see gains in female representation in the Afghan Parliament. He also asked what lessons have been learned about NATO's heavy lift ability to the regions addressed in the report. Hendrik Jan Ormel (NL) suggested the preparation of a special Committee report on Iraqi developments. Rasa Jukneviciene (LT) asked if it would be possible to invite parliamentary representatives from Iraq and Afghanistan to the next NATO PA meeting.
8.      Mario Palombo (IT) asked for clarification on the need for NATO troops to have 'flexibility' in Afghanistan. He said that he did not believe NATO the way that it was constructed now could fight terrorism and that there is little coordination between national intelligence agencies. Frank Cook (UK) noted that the role of women in Afghanistan has changed dramatically. He also urged the parliamentarians to do what they can to reduce the national caveats that currently inhibit NATO operational effectiveness. Willem Hoekzema (NL) noted the need to arrange a fairer way of spreading costs among members. He hoped that this point could be better addressed in paragraph 84. Daniel Bacquelaine (BE) noted that there is sometimes confusion between NATO humanitarian and defence missions. When NATO adopts a humanitarian role, then occasionally Non-Government Organisations are taken for military units.
9.      Professor John Kriendler of the Marshall Center presented his thoughts on the reform of NATO headquarters. Professor Kriendler traced the reform effort of the past few years, noting its importance to NATO’s ability to adapt to the changing security environment. Despite a considerable amount of discussion, however, the reform process has been slow and limited. Some good steps have been taken, such as collocating members of the International Staff and International Military Staff, but more needs to be done to allow NATO to operate more effectively.
10.    Ana Maria Gomes (European Parliament) asked for elaboration on the coordination problems between EU and NATO. Mr Kriendler pointed out that although the “Berlin plus†arrangement has been successful, there is still duplication of efforts between the EU and NATO and that there is an element of competition between the two.
11.    Claude Bachand (CA) expressed concern that headquarters have become more important than the actual deployable forces and enquired whether headquarters have become greater in numbers and staff. Mr Kriendler noted that in fact the headquarters staff is asked to do more with virtually the same size staff, and that the total number of policy professionals at NATO headquarters is only a few hundred individuals.
12.    At the request of the Icelandic delegation, the Committee discussed the planned closure of the United States airbase at Keflavik, Iceland. The United States has maintained the airbase since World War II, but is planning to close it in the wake of a global review of its overseas basing strategy. Össur Skarphédinsson (IS) outlined his delegation’s position, stating that they are highly critical of both the decision to close the base and the manner in which the decision was taken. He did not believe that enough consideration had been given to either the strategic consequences or the implications for the broader Alliance. From a strategic perspective, Iceland has no military of its own, so it cannot independently defend its own airspace. Magnus Stefánsson (IS) added that, given the high volume of air traffic that crosses its airspace, this could present security problems for Iceland and other Allies. Mr Skarphédinsson also stated that the unilateral way in which the United States decided to end discussion and close the base was inappropriate considering Iceland’s firm and long-standing position as a member of the Alliance and a friend of the United States.
13.    Joel Hefley (US) replied that the United States would continue to defend Iceland’s airspace and was looking into other ways to do so without basing aircraft in the country. But he noted that the closure is part of pattern of base closures around the world. Mr Shimkus added that we cannot constrain ourselves to Cold War models of security when considering how to distribute defence resources, and noted that in fact many communities in the United States are also coping with the effects of base closures.Â
14.    Several members from the Baltic region including Mrs Rasa Jukneviciene and Juris Dalbins (LV) noted that NATO supplies air patrols for their countries and suggested that NATO should take on this obligation for Iceland. Per Ove Width (NO) agreed that the issue is not simply a bilateral one and that NATO should play a role.Â
15.    Mr Hefley noted the significance of this issue and offered to transmit the concerns voiced at the Committee meeting to the Department of Defence.
16.    Mr Shimkus presented the draft report of the Sub-Committee on Transatlantic Security and Defence Cooperation. The draft report focused on the changing pattern of the US overseas military presence and its effects on the Alliance. Mr Shimkus emphasized that the changes are based on a strategic re-evaluation of the current security environment. The Sub-Committee plans to visit Romania and Bulgaria to gain more understanding of how the process affects some members of the Alliance.
17.    Andreas Loverdos (GR) inquired whether paragraphs 22-25 of the report imply that the U.S. is withdrawing all of its forces from Germany. Mr Shimkus answered that about 70,000 US soldiers would remain in Germany.Â
18.    Sir John Stanley (UK) addressed two areas not covered in the report: China and the Indian Ocean. The key issue in this matter would be the American basing posture in the vicinity of Taiwan.  In addition, legal action in UK courts may result in the return of land currently used by the US air base at Diego Garcia to the natives of that island.
19.    Mr Bachand noted that the Overseas Basing Commission is critical of the Pentagon’s basing policy. He inquired who carried out the Global Posture Review, and also asked why its planners had not waited for the recommendations of the next Quadrennial Defence Review. Â
20.    Mr Kox said that while the U.S. considers itself to be in a global struggle against violent extremism, his own country did not believe itself to be in such a struggle. He wondered whether it is a wise design to put troops in Eastern Europe, expressing a fear that such a deployment could destabilize the region. Ellen Tauscher (US) asked the Rapporteur to comment about forward deployed troops, communications, and specifically about strategic airlift.Â
21.    General Henri Bentégeat, Chief of Staff of the French Armed Forces discussed France’s strong support of a NATO. He indicated that France is the fifth largest financial contributor and fourth largest operational contributor to NATO. General Bentégeat described operations in three theatres: the Balkans, Afghanistan and Pakistan. The General believes that NATO can accomplish simultaneous operations and can meet today’s global challenges. He reaffirmed that NATO, as a military alliance, must only take on missions that it is capable of successfully accomplishing. He concluded by noting the need for European members of the Alliance to consider investing more in their militaries.
22.    Mr Miranda Calha questioned the General about the respective roles of NATO and the EU. The General recommended that roles should be properly shared between the two organisations based on comparative advantages
23.    Mr Cook presented the draft report of the Sub-Committee on Future Security and Defence Capabilities, NATO’s role in South Caucasus Region. He stressed that the report is a draft to provide some background for the members in advance of their visit to the region later in the year.
24.    Ziyafat Asgarov (AZ) commented the need to rely on the principles of international law to solve the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Mr Asgarov stressed that Nagorno-Karabakh is part of Azerbaijan; Armenia started a military intervention and tried to take control of Azeri territory. Furthermore, today about 20% of Azerbaijan is occupied by Armenia and about one million people to become refugees or internally displaced persons. Mher Shageldyan (AM) emphasized the Armenian use of the rhetoric of peace and negotiations while Azerbaijan uses war rhetoric. He drew attention to the Azerbaijani increase in military expenditures fuelled by oil income. Nicholas Rurua (GE) expressed Georgia’s desire to assist in promoting regional stability. All three delegations submitted detailed written comments on the report that the Rapporteur offered to take into consideration when preparing the final report.
25.    Mr Erdem expressed concern over paragraph 30 of the report. Mr Erdem underlined Turkey’s intention to be constructive and to normalize relations with Armenia. Mr Erdem stressed that references to events that occurred during the Ottoman era should be left out of the report.
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